TRANSCRIPT:
Kim
Welcome to Justice Conversation. This podcast series brings together people who discuss holistic justice from different perspectives.
Philipos
Hi, my name is Philipos Hailemichael, and I am a resident of the Bay Area in California. My mother tongue language is Tigrinya. Most of the perspective I share on this project will come from the Tigrinya culture and norms where I grew up,
For our listeners information – Tigrinya (ትግርኛ) is of the Afroasiatic language family. It is commonly spoken in Eritrea and in northern Ethiopia’s Tigray Region.
Kim
I’m Kim, and I’m from the United States. I started the Justice Conversation website to contribute to a shift in cultural understanding from punitive to relationship-centered justice.
Philipos
We welcome others to join and share in our conversation.
Kim
For our first topic, we would like to answer the question, What is Justice Conversation? Philipos, what does that mean for you?
Philipos
For me, I want give my perspective about Justice conversation based on Tigrinya culture where I grew up. The word justice in the Tigrinya language is ” ፍትሒ ( Fethi).” In a literal meaning “to unlock.” I would like to explore the conversation about justice to revolve around the idea of unlocking. When the locked becomes unlocked and opened up, then moving forward is possible or even certain. Imagine peeling an onion until there is no layer left, or unlocking many doors within a big castle until there is no door left to be opened. This is what the work Justice would look like for from my perspective. Justice can be understood best as the process of opening up all sorts of locks.
Kim
For me, the Justice Conversation website project has to do with the statement that “The law is Love,” and where that might lead us in terms of justice, and law, and living, and how we organize our society. This statement, “The law is Love,” is something I sometimes rephrase as “love is the foundation of justice.”
Love is always in relationship. So justice, too, has to do with relationships: strengthening relationships, staying in relationship with each other. It’s not related to retribution or to punishment. The Justice Conversation website was designed to look at the different ways that our consciousness of justice is opening up into this relationship-based understanding. Right now, I think people are coming out of an understanding based on punishment and retribution, and moving into one of relationship and love. And so I’m exploring, where does that show up in different cultures? in different faiths? in different expressions in political systems? In the actions of corporations? in the work of nonprofits? in the work of artists? And in people’s testimonies?
Philipos
If justice is based on the two points you raised, one is the law is love and one is love is relationship, where I go with that is how can someone be unlocked. To unlock is our ability to have a loving relationship with each other, be open to each other.
A relationship doesn’t necessarily mean a positive relationship. There are also negative relationships when we actually lock, and close down to each other. In a court, when someone breaks the law, we lock them up, but we can choose as a society to restore them back. We can foster a capacity for open responsible relationship instead of a closed and indifferent or even hostile one.
Kim
I think people often think that if you don’t focus on punishment, there will not be accountability. That you’re just letting the problems continue. But restorative processes actually bring people to far greater accountability, and also offer healing. They do a far better job of changing the situation and repairing damage.
Philipos
Yeah, that gives me hope.
I also want to comment about the logo we’re using for the justice conversation podcast, designed by Kim. In this logo I see how person one holds up another and continues to the third and fourth person, etc. I sensed a fresh perspective on justice in comparison with Lady Justice’s with her attributes of a blindfold, scales, and a sword.
For me, holding each other symbolizes loving one another. Consequently, like a blooming flower, the possibility to open up, to be unlocked happens – in the paint I see justice happening, or Fthi, as I say in the Tigrinya language.
Kim, do you want to add more about the logo?
Kim
I want to touch on what you just said about usual Lady Justice with the blindfold and the scales. I did a very large art piece about this Lady Justice. I had a little bit of writing to go with it that I’m pulling out right now, and I want to share it. It says:
“Many of our courthouses sport an icon of Lady Justice that favors retribution, our icon’s scales pit two sides against each other, conjuring corrosive argument, and win or lose thinking. She is blindfolded rather than seeing the truth or expressing compassion. She cuts down and casts out the guilty, ignoring that they too are our children. What effect might it have on our justice system if we change our cultural image, our icon, of Lady Justice?”
Philipos in your comments, I heard something I hadn’t thought about when I did that art piece. I was still drawing Lady Justice, I was just drawing her differently. But in what you just said, you turned the whole icon of justice into something else. Instead of a lady, it became this circle of people holding each other. The logo that I designed for the justice conversation website, when you spoke became a symbol for the whole concept of Justice. Even though I did both pieces of artwork, I actually hadn’t made that connection before. So thank you.
Kim
This podcast has been produced by Philipos Hailmichael and Kim Vanderheiden for the Justice Conversation Project. All rights reserved.
Philipos
We encourage sharing this information in educational settings for the purpose having more conversations about justice, love, and unlocking our interrelationship with each other.
Kim
Join us for more podcasts on justiceconversation.com.